Scot McKay — Strategies to Develop Your Masculinity

0:00 Welcome to The Unapologetic Man Podcast. The only podcast that's all about self-improvement, confidence, success, women, and being a man without making any apologies for it. What is up, everybody? It's Mark Sing from The Unapologetic Man Podcast, and we have a very special guest today. We have Scott McKay from The Mountaintop Podcast. What's going on, Scott? Hey, how's it going, Mark? I'm happy to be here, although I have to tell you, sometimes I do apologize. When I've done somebody wrong, I make sure I apologize. I never say I'm sorry because I'm not sorry, but I definitely apologize.

0:39 Well, that's unacceptable behavior. So this is going to be the shortest podcast in existence. Goodbye, everybody. It was nice talking to you. Buy lots of books. So today, Scott and I are going to talk about developing your masculinity, which seems to be a gigantic issue for a lot of men these days. So, Scott, you've been doing this for a long time. Your website, it says you've been doing The Mountaintop Podcast for 12 years. Yeah, actually, it's going on 14. Wow. Yeah. Actually, well, I've been in practice for 14, but you're absolutely dead on accurate.

1:06 I think The Mountaintop Podcast, we're in our 13th year. I did a podcast with my wife, which I still do sporadically, called XMI on the fly. And then we launched what was called the Chick Whisperer Podcast in 2007, early. And that one has done extremely well over the years. And whispering and such started sounding a lot like it was so 2005. So probably about three years ago, we changed the branding of it, the title of the podcast to The Mountaintop. And we've been having more guys on, more guests on, who talk about, I would say, a wider variety of topics that are particularly interesting to men in general, not just dating advice.

1:53 Although I have to tell you, whenever we talk about women, those are absolutely our most downloaded shows. And when we have guests who are women who I tend to flirt and banter with, you know, unashamedly, it's like every show is a demo. And those are particularly highly downloaded shows. Those guys really like them. You know, that's a good idea. I haven't had a woman on my show yet, but that would be cool just to get just to get a girl who I'm flirting with and a real time demonstration.

2:19 I think I'm going to do that. That just gave me some ideas. So I appreciate that. So as you know, I'm happily married, so I don't hit on women and I don't make sexual innuendos towards them or any kind of entree that I'm sexually interested in them. I just simply enjoy the fact that they're female and they're women and they tend to get very happy and very feminine with me on the show. And I am sort of good at what I do in terms of what I call igniting femininity.

2:52 A lot of guys really don't understand that concept of how masculinity really catalyzes femininity. So when I have female guests on the show, really what happens is it's natural. There's not anything really scripted. It's not like I'm trying to do some sort of weird infield footage or something like that. It's something that happens naturally as I interact with women. And I think that's really a very important part of what it means to recognize how one's masculinity in the virtuous sense, certainly not the toxic sense that the media likes to drive nowadays, but how virtuous masculinity really does just wake up and catalyze femininity.

3:27 It's a lot of fun. And guys who aren't doing that on a daily basis for quite literally anyone or anything female they meet are really missing out on a golden, beautiful part of life. I oftentimes compare it to a rubber band being pulled between two people and there needs to be polarity there. So the further you're in your masculinity and the further she's in her femininity, the tighter that rubber band is going to be. And there's going to be more tension there. And that can even be described as sexual tension where, of course, you're married.

3:56 I'm not implying anything, but when you have that tension with a woman, which is so important, she can get more attracted to you because there's that polarity. She moves into her feminine, you move into your masculine, and there's that tightness between you two. So that's what our show today is going to be designated to is how we can get into our masculinity, which naturally puts women into their femininity. And then that creates attraction all on its own. So one of the strategies is to be consistent and have a towards mentality.

4:31 So a towards mentality is to keep going after your goals, be like a bull on the open prairie who's just charging and he's going after it. So one of the questions I have for you, 12 years of doing the podcast, what is the purpose behind your motivation? What really gets you up in the morning? What gets you going and how can you keep that kind of longevity when invariably there's obstacles that come up, there's difficulties, there's challenges? How have you been able to stay in that towards masculine energy to stick with it with that long and stay motivated?

5:01 Well, I would say I've never really felt like my masculinity has been challenged. I've never woken up one morning and thought to myself, gee, I'm sick of being masculine. But I would say that certainly you have to have purpose. There has to be something that's driving you to keep doing what you're doing with the passion that you have for so long. And as you may know already, because I know you've been listening to my podcast for several years, etc. I had a pretty disastrous first marriage and I'm not what one would call a quote unquote natural when it comes to women.

5:38 I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth when it comes to attracting women. So for me, all of this has been the product of learned skill, a lot of practice, a lot of intentional, I guess, self-work, for lack of a better way to put it. And the result has been much better relationships with female human beings. I was able to date amazing women before I got married, you know, after the divorce. Once I finally decided I didn't want to be a victim, I wanted to learn how women thought, which a lot of guys really think it's impossible to understand women, but it really isn't.

6:14 And then I wanted to become the kind of man who attracts women. And really, that involves being a better man in general, not only masculinity, but virtue in general. And then you start attracting more feminine, higher quality women. And those women by nature are typically a lot more attractive. They have nice facial features and nice bodies and stuff. That's an added bonus. So I started attracting women. And my friends started noticing and they were wondering what I was doing. And that's when I really started to realize that the quality of the relationships I was attracting far exceeded that which most guys were experiencing in their own lives.

6:50 And that culminated in me meeting my wife, Emily. And we've had a wonderful, blissful marriage. I mean, you know, life comes along and throws you curves. And we've had some pretty devastating things happen. But as a team being together, our partnership has never felt like work in 14 years. And we are so much better for having each other by our side, you know, respectively. And she's my favorite woman. I would do it all over again. We had a, you know, we had a guest the other day, we were outside talking, and I was just looking at my wife, not hearing a word she said, just noticing how adorable she is, just how cute she looked.

7:29 And I still look at her like that and just, you know, lose my train of thought after 14 years, because she's everything I've ever wanted. And I've thought, you know, perhaps next to spirituality, certainly above career, certainly above the adventures you're having. And make no mistake, I mean, we have lots of adventure around here. And we are doing wonderfully in our careers. We're doing what we want to do. But your love life, your success with women as a man is gotta be one of the most mission critical areas of life.

8:00 And it's a part of life where a lot of guys find they have the most problems. I have a hard time getting women to be attracted to me. I have a hard time getting over my anxiety about even meeting women. I don't know what to say to them. And now online dating has happened and everybody's so superficial and everybody's just collecting likes. And I just don't even know how to navigate this. And once I get a woman in front of me, you know, I have to be some kind of incredible wordsmith or a standup comedian or something to even get her to like me.

8:28 How do I even have a relationship? What about the 50% divorce rate? And it just seems like this is an area of life that presents just to a lot of guys an insurmountable number of challenges. And I just decided quite simply and frankly, that this was an area of life where since I was so thrilled with the success that I experienced, I wanted other people and indeed both men and women to be able to not only be motivated, but to believe that yes, they could have the same kind of wonderful relationship with someone that I was able to experience.

9:06 Maybe not in the exact same way. I definitely don't try to create clones of myself and Emily. I mean, certain people have different priorities in their relationships, but that ability to have someone in your life and to have a true partner, which I know you understand also, is really worth putting purpose behind. And that's what's kept me motivated for all these years. And indeed, I'm a very curious person. I think and I read a lot and I love to talk to people who know their stuff about different topics.

9:34 And I also, as a result of that, realizing, you know, back to the topic of today, how important masculinity and femininity are to having success as men and women in relationships together. I've really become a champion of virtuous masculinity. I don't believe in instigating a war between the genders. I think we should be in partnership together, men and women. But I do think that there is a lot going on in the media that gives people a very jaded perception of what manhood is and what masculinity actually is.

10:05 And certainly masculinity is built around virtue, not vice. And it certainly isn't inherently toxic. And there's a lot to talk about there. And that, of course, gets me up out of bed every morning and motivated to help guys really maximize who they are. Yeah, I love that. And that's absolutely true. Having a good woman behind you is just so important. And with me, my woman's name is Marissa. Last night, I was watching her with the baby. We have a three-month-old. And I was just watching her reading a book to this three-month-old baby who doesn't understand anything.

10:42 But she's just going fully into her femininity, rocking this baby, reading this book to her. And I was just sitting there watching her marveling at the power of femininity. And that's actually what we're going to talk about a little bit on your podcast today is my experience as being a pickup coach and having a daughter and having a woman that I'm committed to and kind of questioning or at least reevaluating some of the things that I've taught. And I dare say some of the things I've done in my past to women and with women and just seeing how Marissa moves into her femininity because in her case, she has a high-power job where she's an executive and she's bossing people around all day.

11:25 And she has to, frankly, move into her masculine energy in some ways when she's at work. But when she comes home, it's decided like, look, you are the woman and I am the man. And that doesn't say that I'm superior to her or she's superior to me. We just move into our roles. So she comes into the home and she lets go. She lets me decide what we're having for dinner. And certainly, I know how to lead her to where she wants to be led, which is one of the core tenets of my teachings to how to attract women, lead them to where they want to be led.

11:56 But it's a beautiful power that she's able to move into. And having a woman, a great woman behind you, moves you into your masculinity naturally because love is the opposite of fear. And when you have love, you move into that which you were created to be, which is the protector, provider, and presider, which is one of the things that the Order of Men podcast talks about. And as her protector, I'm the one who takes care of the security around the house. As the provider, I make sure that everybody's provided for and taken care of.

12:28 And the presider is I watch over. And last night, I was watching over her moving into that feminine role. And it was such a beautiful thing to witness. And I hear you when you say what you have with Emily, because a lot of our clients, both you and I, and I know you're a dating coach too, a lot of our clients want to get laid as much as possible and get game. And as one of my clients put it, walk into the bar and it's like throwing dynamite into a pond.

12:56 It's just, you just get every single girl you want. And while that's very fulfilling, I shouldn't say very fulfilling, while that's somewhat fulfilling for a while, I think most guys really want to meet that one girl and have that really strong team with her, that partnership that you and Emily have and me and Marissa have. And when you move into your masculine and she moves into your feminine, I feel like that happens so much more smoothly because so many relationships, you know, there's turmoil and there's fighting and there's issues with that.

13:29 And I think it really has a lot to do with the polarity is out of whack. He's too much in his feminine. She's too much in the masculine. And there's no smoothness there because, you know, we're not taking on our natural born roles. So I really resonated with what you said there. Now, regarding strategies, okay, I want to get real tactile with this and give our listeners some strategies. What are some of the strategies that you've developed to move into your masculinity more, to become that man, to become the virtuous version of yourself that Emily can come home and be proud of every day?

14:04 Well, you know, you just threw a lot of ammo out on the table to sort out. It'd be nice to be able to sort some of it out. And I'm going to answer your question in a way that harks back to some of the points you just made. You mentioned this idea of being able to walk into a room and get all the women and how after a while that's not fulfilling and maybe only partially fulfilling. I'm going to challenge that in this way. I still get almost all the women and I find it immensely fulfilling.

14:36 I love that part of my life is having sex with all those women fulfilling though. That's what I was pointing to. Right. Okay. Well, see now that's the differentiation I'm making. Right. The attention I'm with you, brother. Oh, I love that attention. Well, I think it's more than merely attention. I think being valued and esteemed. I'm just going to throw it on the table the way I see it looked forward to by women is something a lot of guys miss out on in life. Like the MGTOW guys who've given up on women and think they're all horrible.

15:05 And anytime I hear women from my country are especially horrible, you know, well, you know, women are the same everywhere in the world. I've been, I'd make Johnny Cash jealous with how many countries I've been to. So I've been everywhere, man. And women are the same all over the world, but I am happily married. My sexual boundaries are unlimited with my wife, obviously, and we are monogamous and that's the way we choose to be. But I do think that a lot of times, and I think one of the things you're also talking about is maturity as a man and how maturity and masculinity mesh together to create something wonderful in the eyes of society in general, but especially women and indeed other guys too.

15:47 When guys are mature in their masculinity, they understand that sticking the round peg in the round hole isn't necessarily all that. And I mean, this may melt some guys' faces, but when you have quite a number of women you have, you can text and they'll come over and have sex with you tonight. A lot of times you'd really rather just go get some tacos or play golf, but you're ready to move on to something else. It's kind of like how a lot of guys can't understand how very pretty women aren't impressed that men want to have sex with them.

16:22 It was like, that's easy. You know, where's the relationship? Where's the guy who's going to value me for more than that? But being a man who's valued by women in a variety of ways, and indeed, they may want me or you or another guy listening sexually once we're doing this effectively, but it is immensely fulfilling to realize that your masculinity is being validated by those human beings for whom it's meant to catalyze. So I wanted to go ahead and address that. The other thing you talked about is the idea of providing, protecting, and presiding, which is, I think, a very primal, basic concept that no one has particularly invented.

17:00 I love the alliteration of those three words together, and if I'm not mistaken, the originator of that trifecta is actually the Church of Latter-day Saints, who has always been very good about talking about family. I mean, you know, if you've seen the South Park episode, you, you know, may find their theology questionable, but it is, and nonetheless, in talking about masculinity being a provider, being that which provides, protects, and presides, that is the earliest place that that particular collection of verbs has been seen together relative to masculinity.

17:39 And I love the word preside because that means sort of having control and dominion. I mean, you have a domain, and you are comfortable with the decision-making as it relates to that purview. And you talked about how your wife is, you know, a captain of industry and has to be in her masculine at work. Well, she comes home, and she just wants to be a woman. This is the place where she has that freedom to be feminine, and your provision and protection and presiding over your house frees her up to be feminine.

18:16 And then as a man, what happens is you are the beneficiary of those feminine gifts. I say all the time, femininity is the higher calling. We as men, and our providing, protecting, presiding efforts, are freeing women up to bring the joy, fun, comfort to the world that we all live for on weekends. And when we don't do that effectively, the woman is going to have to be in the masculine to do the providing and protecting. And that's when you have a nagging girlfriend or wife because you're just not fulfilling your end of the bargain, and she feels like she's out of whack in terms of what her roles are.

18:53 Now, societally, you know, being a leader at work or whatever, so be it. But in terms of sexual attraction, if you're not freeing a woman up to be feminine, you're not sexually attracting her. And a lot of times, I think also, Mark, guys get caught up in this idea of leading as if it's a controlling, jerky, toxic thing. I think when we're little boys who are immature and we have a self-serving agenda, it becomes toxic. But when masculinity is operating in its intended manner, what we're doing is we're looking out for the best interests of those people we love.

19:30 And you mentioned you just had a daughter. I, you know, after 15 years of being immersed in men's dating advice, it's amazing to look back in history of the past decade and a half and a half of all the pick-up artist type of guys who thought every guy who's married is a beta and got his balls chopped off at the altar, etc., etc. And now they're all married with children, you know. I mean, there's a fulfillment to leaving a legacy. There's a masculine energy to being the head of a tribe.

20:03 And in order to be the head of that tribe, you have to look at those things that are further down Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like safety and security and protection, and realize that until those base levels of the pyramid have taken place, then upper level echelon principles like fun, joy, comfort, those things that femininity are most responsible for, that we're all most looking forward to, simply cannot happen. So when a woman has to do the providing and protecting, all that has to happen and be in place before she can even get around to being feminine.

20:45 And when a man comes and lifts that off her shoulders and does what a man should do, not only is she free to be feminine, but the man gets that reward. Her femininity comes back to him. And I just think that's very important to understand in terms of the dance of masculinity and femininity, for sure. I'm glad you brought all that up. You know, that's interesting. I never looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs in that respect, where the masculinity takes care of the base of it.

21:11 And femininity is the top tiers of that. That's really interesting to me. And that's true. Masculinity is that which also does what it doesn't want to do. You know, when you sit down to do your taxes, your testosterone has been scientifically proven to raise by, I think, double digits, just by doing something that you don't want to do, by being responsible, by taking care of. And that's the real basis of it. It's taking care of, creating the foundation, creating the safety net so that the femininity can, you know, express itself.

21:50 And that's anthropologically speaking as well. I mean, if we look at ourselves in tribal communities, you know, the masculinity were the warriors, the protectors, the hunters. And then the femininity were the creators and putting out life and creating future generations. And it's beautiful to a woman when you can express to her simply by how you carry yourself, the tonality of your voice, the way you talk to her, even when you first approach her, that you are a man in your masculine energy. And when you do that, attraction usually results because of it, because we are quite literally programmed to be attracted to that in each other.

22:33 And so many guys, Scott, come to me and they say, you know, I want women to approach me. I want to be, like I said earlier, throw dynamite in the pond and all these chicks are just coming up to me and fawning over me. And, you know, I have had that before. And frankly, when a woman approaches you guys, she's in her masculine energy. And do you really want that? Is that the best way to start it? You know, yes resides in the land of no.

22:59 So many men are afraid of getting rejected, but yes resides in the land of no, where it's her job, her responsibility to say either yes or no to you. And it's your job to approach the woman. It's your job to submit the application. Now, are there ways to show that she's also submitting the application? Yes. And that's a core tenant to my teachings, but masculinity is that's what goes and gets. And so these guys who want women to approach them, I would ask you to reconsider that because that's putting her in the masculine role.

23:37 It's your job. So go talk to her. If you're attracted to her, talk to her. And remember that yes resides in the land of no. You get eight no's, you may get a yes on the ninth one. So that's the reason to approach. Well, I think that kind of talks to the idea of choosing versus chasing and you hear a lot of dating advice and indeed a whole lot of men's and women's dating advice is composed of hand-me-downs. You know, some people have original thoughts, some people don't.

24:09 And I think one of the hand-me-downs as they are often comes from the fact that it really resonates with a lot of guys and it helps them want more of what you're selling. And that is make these women chase you instead of you chasing them all the time. That's probably my highest clicked podcast right there. 10 ways to get a woman to chase you. Yeah. Well, I had someone on to talk about that also, and certainly it was just as powerful in terms of how much the idea resonated.

24:39 But it's a fundamentally flawed premise. You know, it's kind of like saying, do you still beat your wife? It's just the whole premise is coming out of the gate flawed. Because the problem is, if you're going around chasing women, you're desperate, you're needy, you're trying to get her to give you what you want. And what we're trying to think is, I'm sick of that and I want them to do that to me instead. Except we don't. When women start chasing us, we start wondering what the hell's wrong with them because they seem desperate and needy.

25:13 And what I talk about instead is the art of choosing. And I actually have had women who lurk reading my men's newsletter take me to task going, you know, you're wrong. Men chase and women choose. You know, women are the choosers. And you kind of alluded to that in terms of saying you may get eight nos before you get one or two yeses. See, now I would argue that the healthiest relationship is going to be composed of two people, neither of whom chased and both of whom chose.

25:48 The fault in the dating advice that makes it, you know, flawed right out of the gate, as I said, is that there has to be a chooser and there has to be a chaser, that there's a presumption that that has to be the case. In reality, I know of couples, both of whom were chasers who settled for each other because that's all they could get. And those relationships are doomed from the start. And yet, when you look at a relationship where both people chose each other, what typically was the case is both of them had several options or more in terms of who they could theoretically date or have sex with or whatever you want to say, there were options available to them in terms of relating to someone in a non-platonic relationship.

26:31 And what happens is when someone meets another person like themselves in that respect and they choose each other, then that is a very secure relationship. My wife has no problem with me taking men out in field for the weekend to teach them how to get better with women because she knows, based on hard evidence, that she's my favorite woman I've ever met. She has no jealousy. I have no jealousy towards her. She's going to come home to me. I've said on my podcast, if a guy comes and steals my wife away, I will shake his hand and buy him a beer.

27:11 And I will be on Match.com tomorrow morning because I'm not worried about it. And if I did, he will have earned it. Yeah. I'm not going to be a little bitch about it. I'm going to do what men do. And that's going to keep her attracted. She knows I chose her. And oh, by the way, nothing makes a woman feel safer and secure in a relationship with you than to know you chose her. That not, I mean, the only thing worse than settling for someone who's being settled for.

27:40 That's painful. That's humiliating. So these guys are like, oh, I want women to chase me for a while. What they need to realize is they need to stop chasing women and not have the women chase them, but that they need to start choosing. And yes, it may be convenient to think that women can say yes or no to you. But as a man, you have the golden privilege of deciding who you say yes to first. Yep. You talk to a bunch of women and they'll say, oh my God, I can't get guys to approach me.

28:07 I never get guys to go out with men have all the power in the dating world. Yeah. Well, whoever doesn't have the options thinks the other gender has all the power. If I am consistently good at getting women to want more of whatever I'm offering, then I will have choices. Now, it's perfectly reasonable because we're all human and we're all individuals that people in general won't want anything to do with me. I'm a person who shoots straight. I tell it like it is. And I find fluffy people tend not to feel very comfortable around me.

28:40 You know, and by that, I mean people who like blow smoke up each other's kilts and act fake and such, they don't like hanging around me. People who like swindling others, people like getting together and scheming how they can cheat people, they have a very hard time with me. But I'm okay with that because I'm okay with who I am. I've decided who I want to be and I understand. I understand the gains to be made from that and the consequences that come from being who I am.

29:08 Like, if you try to please everybody, you'll please nobody. And indeed, if you are pleasing everybody, you're not true enough to who you really are. So when I decide I want to choose a woman, I would expect she would choose me in return. If she doesn't, she has that prerogative. But it's not like I'm hanging out there on a limb trying to get women to please take me. And so what I want as a man who chooses the women I want in my life, you know, this is before I met Emily.

29:36 Obviously, I made the ultimate choice there. I want to know that they prefer me also. Now, we can be dating multiple people. But when they're with me, they're glad they're there. They're not wishing I was someone else. And when they're with me, I'm glad they are who they are. And that's when women tend to relax and start really, I don't know, they stop worrying about all this chasing and such. And they just relax because that phase of it is over. You can now just be. You can now just enjoy each other's company.

30:11 There's no more consternation about who has who's in the power position over whom here sexually. One of the best things in a relationship that you can have is to feel almost like you're more yourself when you're with your woman than even when you're with yourself. 100%. When I'm with Marissa, I just feel like I'm home. And I tell her that. We do this thing every night, a little bit of cuddling on the couch. And we jokingly call it the cuddle shuttle. And we watch Netflix for half an hour and I spoon her.

30:46 And there's this weird thing that happens with her where I feel like her energy cleans my energy field. It's almost as if I'm holding on to her and I can feel her energy coming through my body and like cleaning me out in a way. And the other night I was thinking to myself, you know, Mark, you are really outstanding with women. You could, if Marissa left you, you could go get a girl within two days. But for the first time ever, I literally felt like I needed her.

31:18 I needed her. And I told her that I said, you know, Marissa, you are everything to me. And this relationship is important. So important to me that I'll do anything for you. And I literally feel like I need you. And I've never felt that before with another woman. And like you and Emily, she's such an important part of my life that I would do anything for her. I really feel like I would die for this girl. And I was always so afraid, Scott, to do that.

31:44 Always had my guard up telling myself, man, I could drop this girl in a heartbeat and go get another girl tomorrow. No problem. And that's cowardice. Courage is pure vulnerability to tell a woman, I need you. I love you. You make me better. With you behind me, I can do anything. And it was only until recently, and certainly I'm still developing. I'm 42. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 42. And it was only until recently that I had the courage to tell her that. And now that I have told her that, and now that I've told her, I am committed to you 100% for the long haul.

32:25 We are doing this. Has our relationship grown to a level that I've never experienced before. And every night in the cuddle shuttle, man, it's the thing I look forward to the most my entire day. And I go out just like you do, Scott. And I teach infield on Thursday nights in Denver. And I have girls all over me, you know, one girl dancing on my right leg, one girl pulling my left arm and all that. But man, I just want to be in that cuddle shuttle.

32:53 Because being with her is like home, like home. And that to me is masculinity, that pure vulnerability to let a woman fully into your life. Well, I think as part of making a woman feel safe and comfortable in your presence, and this isn't an idea that's original to me. As a matter of fact, I just recently discussed this on my podcast with another guest. A lot of times guys think that machismo is masculinity. Well, machismo is what you and I do to impress each other. It's kind of like the slag that comes from refining petroleum.

33:27 I mean, the tar is machismo. The jet fuel is the masculinity that attracts women. That's the product that we're looking for from this. That's the purpose of it. And so indeed, if we're too cool to say I'm sorry, you know, I joked about that at the top end of this podcast. And I hope everybody understood that was a joke. But you know, if you're too hard of a guy to say I'm sorry, to ever apologize to your kids for doing wrong, you never admit you do anything wrong.

34:00 If you're just too hard a guy to ever say I love you because it'd make you soft and like some kind of wuss, boy, are you missing the point of your masculinity in the jet fuel version. That's a bunch of tar. Because what happens is when you make a woman feel safe and comfortable in your presence, she will do anything for you because she understands that's what masculinity does. And yeah, okay, you've got a roof over her head. You're bringing home the bacon. You know, none of the warring tribes are going to rape and pillage the cave, whatever.

34:27 But there's more to that. There's an emotional level to that that's more evolved. And a big part of that is allowing the woman to be feminine towards you. You know, you had a rough day at work. You got beat up on the battlefield. You come home and she rests. You rest in her. I mean, I'm reminded of the movie Terminator where, you know, the guy's got his back is all scarred up. And the woman says to him, well, you know, so much pain. And she basically proceeds to give him pleasure.

34:55 I mean, that is what a woman wants to do for a man who has been masculine in the primal sense towards her. And we do. We need to relax and let that happen because that makes the woman feel more valued by us. And a lot of guys just can't wrap their head around this. And they end up with relationships that lack intimacy. Well, intimacy is for pussies. And, you know, vulnerability is weakness. And, you know, we could get all into the Brene Brown portfolio here. But there is truth to be gleaned from the fact that there really needs to be two words for vulnerability in the English language.

35:34 And this is something I've never heard Brene Brown ever get around to, although I've heard her talk and it's crossed my mind that a clarification would be very useful in her work. But, you know, there's vulnerability like I'm an opossum crossing an interstate highway and I'm about to get hit. I'm going to die here. I'm weak. I'm in a position where I'm going to get run over. You know, if you're not funny and you're trying to be a stand-up comedian and you get on stage at the comedy store in Los Angeles, you're going to get run over.

36:05 That was stupid vulnerability. The other kind of vulnerability for which we need to perhaps come up with a different word for is what Brene Brown would refer to is courage when you don't know the outcome. I'm going to go talk to that woman. She may like me. She may not. But I'm going to do it anyway because if I don't, I'm going to be mad at myself. I will have rejected myself. A lot of guys think they're being more of a man or whatever because they refuse to talk to a woman.

36:31 They refuse to grab their balls and go approach her and talk to her. But it is more masculine to make that risk, to risk the loss instead of fearing the loss. You very eloquently referred to fear is the opposite of love. That is very true. That which we fear, we tend to hate. So actually, hate is itself dependent from fear, even the descendant from fear, even though a lot of people like to think of hate as the antonym of love, right? So when we fear too much that we will not take the risk because we're afraid of the outcome, we are by definition doing the exact opposite of being courageous, and we are doing that by refusing to be vulnerable in that virtuous sense.

37:20 And a lot of guys, when they're confronted, and that's a good word to use, when they're confronted with the idea that their inability to attract a woman because of fear of rejection is because they lack vulnerability and therefore lack courage, it's a lot for them to wrap their head around. But yes, masculinity involves vulnerability if it's the kind of vulnerability and the kind of masculinity that's going to turn a woman on sexually, for sure, 100%. In my teachings, one of my central tenets, and I'm sure it's the same for you, is frame control.

37:57 And one of the most important things to frame control is to be unaffected, unemotional. If she says something to you that's designed to hurt, and you show that you got hurt by it, that's you being emotional. But when we look at that more deeply, the reason we are unaffected is because we are not in fear, really, when it comes down to it. Because all attack is a cry for help, and all being hurt is derivative of fear, and a cry for help. So when she stabs at you, and you stab back at her, that's showing that you're fearful, that you're out of your masculine energy.

38:31 So when we are unaffected, it's showing that we're in our masculine energy. Now, many of the principles that we teach in quote-unquote seduction pickup are derived from this deeper thing. And I like how this conversation has gone into these deep philosophical elements. I'm really enjoying this. But really, what it all derives from, what the real point of it is, that masculinity is love. And coincidentally, femininity is love as well. Love is everything. I mean, we can go down a spiritual rabbit hole right now, you know, God is love, etc.

39:07 But you ask yourself, in all situations, what would love do now? If I had to have a bracelet on, it wouldn't say, what would Jesus do? It would say, what would love do? What would love do now? And when you tackle all challenges, situations, and confrontations with love, it solves it every single time. Because you are in your masculine energy. You are being courageous. Love is the opposite of fear. There's a book called The Gates of Fire. Did you read that book, Scott? I have not.

39:40 It's about the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. And throughout the book, it's a brilliant book. I strongly suggest it. The main character is asking his brothers in arms, what is the opposite of fear? And they're saying things like fearlessness, you know, courage and stuff like that. And he said, no, that's not good enough. So at the end, right about when they're about to be killed by the millions of Persians, he says, you know, I finally found it, that the opposite of fear is love. And the reason why we can stand together, Philadelphia, which is brotherly love in arms, that's what it means.

40:15 The reason we can stand together is not because we hate the enemy, but it's because we love the man at our side. And that's the bond that's created in warfare is that love, and that's masculinity. So it's like the sign in Taoism, where femininity has a little bit of masculinity in it. And masculinity has a little bit of femininity in it. It's so true. And in this respect, that's quite the demonstration of having that feminine element that we perceived as feminine of love in the masculinity that creates true masculinity.

40:43 And I think that's really a beautiful thing. And it does go down to a spiritual level. And for me, spirituality, my relationship with God, meditation, and being in the present moment is the most important thing to me. And you guys who are trying to get better with women, evolving yourself in these ways, because right now you're thinking, well, these guys haven't given me a lot of tactile tips and strategies to do it, but we have. Involving yourself spiritually, understanding these concepts, stepping into vulnerability, love, and compassion is the way into your masculinity.

41:18 And that's reflected in things like your body language, your tone, so that when you go up to her, boom, she feels it from you. She feels it because it's more of a play of feelings, of states, than it is a play of words when you're speaking to a woman. So I think that's the fundamental nucleus, the real center that we've arrived to in this conversation. And I think it's beautiful, man. I really appreciated this talk. I would issue the caveat there that it is not necessarily virtuous for a man to presume that anytime someone has a criticism of him, that it is unfounded and he should let it roll right off his back.

42:01 When we see patterns of how people treat us or what they're presenting us with, sometimes we do well to show some humility and incorporate what they're talking about. Not when there's just a hater who spews something at us, but when we are hearing from people, hey, you know what, you tend to be this way and it drives us nuts, that is basically the frontier where we can be better as a man if we have the vulnerability to have humility. As you were talking, I was reminded of the television show Californication, you know, what David Duchovny is, Hank Moody, and this is a much ballyhooed television show amongst the guys who give men's dating advice because the guy just gets laid a lot.

42:44 But what I understood that show to be most about was Hank Moody's ability to believe women aren't trying to hurt him and that they cannot do so. And indeed, if you've ever watched the show, women basically ruin his life in many, many ways. But he does not let them faze him. He doesn't let women's attempts to use your word attack him or hijack his mojo or anything like that. Nothing women do is seen as a threat to him. He believes that women want to be good to him and that they really fundamentally can't injure him, at least not mortally.

43:23 And that devil may care attitude translates to women really feeling more safe and secure because he, as you said, holds his frame. He is a man who provides, protects, and presides. I mean, he's an anti-hero in the show. He's a drunk and he's, you know, kind of a ne'er-do-well and can't stay faithful. But the virtue there of not being afraid of women, when that fear is not there, really, the love for women that he has deep down shows through. And I think it's a really powerful part of that character.

43:57 And I've always, lately at least, been telling guys, look, when you stop fearing loss with women, I mean, fearing loss is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Guys who fear loss tend to lose. You know, it's kind of like, you know, it's like the old adage in motorcycle racing, you know, wherever you look is where you're going to go. So if you look down, guess where you're going. And I think a lot of guys, when they think, okay, these women aren't going to want me, the women don't want them.

44:28 Because when guys fear loss, that loss is more likely to happen. Therefore, when we don't have fear of that loss, and we're, for lack of a better way to put it, okay with the outcome, that outcome tends to work better for us. Absolutely. All right, Scott, this was a fantastic podcast. I want to let our listeners know where they can get to know more about you. Where should we send them? Well, let's send them to my podcast, man. They're obviously listeners and love podcasting and stuff.

45:01 And you're going to be a guest on mine very shortly also, if not already, by the time this airs. So they can go to www.mountaintoppodcast.com. Fantastic. Yeah, guys, I strongly suggest Scott's podcast. He has some great guests. And as you've seen, some great insights. So I would hop on over there and support. And I want to thank you for listening today. If you have any questions about my coaching, feel free to reach out to me on coachmarksing.com. I am an NLP coach. NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming.

45:26 And we can get those metaprograms in your brain rewired so you can operate effectively and step into your masculinity with that courage and love that we spoke about today. So thank you so much for listening, guys. And we will see you in the next podcast.

This transcript was made automatically, so a few words may be off.